Church and State and the PC people

Published on December 2, 2004 By just john In Politics

I am glad that I live in a country where I can freely express my opinions.

I am no history buff, I am not buried in all of the political jargon that passes through popular news and I certainly don't keep up with all the articles posed on the net.

Recently, "religious songs" were removed from a public school because they didn't want to offend anyone. There is always some talk of separation of church and State going on. Most of it is associated with schools. We can't say God in the pledge of allegiance.

Am I wrong, or was the original intention of this separation designed to allow Americans to freely worship the God of their choice (or not to). This country was founded on morals and God.

I can understand that if your child doesn't practice a religion that believes in the "popular" God that your child not participate. Nothing wrong there. Or better, lets include a celebration of all religions and include everyone.

I come from the school of thought that your religion is less important than your faith. I was told recently by a very close family member that I was going to Hell because I am Catholic. I told her she was going to heaven because she believed in God.

Church and sate is about your freedom to choose without government persecution, not about being politically correct.

Comments

philomedy

on Dec 02, 2004

Absolutely true. Faith and religion are two different things, and faith should certainly have more weight. I would add conduct to the list however, and maybe ideology as well, since many people pattern their lives after systems of thought that have nothing to do with either religion or faith.

drmiler

on Dec 02, 2004

Church and State and the PC people

By: just john
Posted: Thursday, December 02, 2004 on I have something to say ... I think
Message Board: Politics
Church and sate is about your freedom to choose without government persecution, not about being politically correct.

BINGO!

mismos

on Dec 03, 2004

I think it has more to do with not letting the Church influence politics and for the Government not to promote any particular religion.

Personally I believe there should be a religion class for youngsters, but the religious right wing would never allow it. If you start teaching their children all the different types of belief systems in the world and how everyone takes them on faith, then you'll undermine their belief in there own religion. "What makes our belief that's based on faith, better then other peoples belief which are also based on faith" a child will ask his parents. There is no satisfying answer that a child can recieve to this question. And once we all realize the Subjectivity of Truth we can all move beyond this circular religious argumentation that only creates division throughout the world.

Except for Nihilists, everyone has faith in something - even science is a belief system - yet one with very strict rules of engagment and which turns back on itself to question itself. It sometimes proves itself wrong, but it evolves.

The only things constant in the world is change therefore any deterministic belief system that one holds onto will never be able stand up to the turbulence of life. I read an interesting article the other day and I can't remember where (if anybody else has read it let me know where it was I saw it) that neurologists studing the brain have noted that we make all our decision with the emotion part of the brain and then mould our decision to fit our particular belief system.

kingbee

on Dec 03, 2004

in order to protect its citizens' right to engage in private practice of the vast spectrum of religions, it is imperative our government distance itself from all religions. any other course--including authorizing the singing of christmas carols (which requires someone to select which carol will be sung) or permitting any other manifestation of belief in a public facility or as part of a function funded by taxpayers--carries with it the implication or suggestion of official approval.

it's very simple. the united states government is a civil institution and has no need or reason to involved itself in spiritual matters. this is what the framers of the constitution intended and it is the only fair way to deal with a matter of personal spiritual belief.

Vecctor

on Dec 03, 2004

I think it has more to do with not letting the Church influence politics and for the Government not to promote any particular religion.

It is about there not being a state-sponsered religion. Mandating that everyone worship in the catholic tradition of the jewish tradition only, for example.

The fine line that is argued over is the "influence" part of that. By definition an election is being presented with several sets of policies, beliefs, ideas, etc. and then voting based on which you most agree with or which is most in-line with your set. When those beliefs are purely secular (economic policy, health care, etc) noone seems to have any problem but as soon as some people believe people's individual decisions are influenced by religion or faith (moral values, etc) they start crying foul over "seperation of church and state".

The problem with that is that personal beliefs are personal beliefs and you can't keep people from letting thier faith influence their decisions because that is part of what makes up their personal belief structure. I have seen what I percieve to be alot of sentiment that claims that opinions influenced by religion are somehow less valid than any others. It goes: "Their just doing it because of religion or faith." You can understand how this might come across as condescending - painting certain people's decisions as less valid because of how you assume they made them.

In the absolute worst case scenario when everyone stops thinking and just starts following a random church official in what they say this sentiment would probably be true ("The crucible" comes to mind - where common sense went out the window and everyone was pointing at everyone else and crying "WITCH!"). The error is in assuming this is the case with everyone over the entire country and we're all going down the tubes because dogmatism has taken over, people all over the country are blindly following church officials, and nobody is thinking anymore. I think this is the fear that many secularist-leaning people have and that is why they are upset.

In response to this, let me just say: my views are often in-line with my religious beliefs, but I can justify them intellectually as well. My decision may be influenced by religion in some way, but don't worry, I am still thinking about it and did alot of thinking before I even arrived at my religious beliefs themselves.

Daiwa

on Dec 03, 2004

"What makes our belief that's based on faith, better then other peoples belief which are also based on faith" a child will ask his parents. There is no satisfying answer that a child can recieve to this question.

If parents are unable to answer that question, there's a problem with the parents. That's one of the reasons I'm personally so against incorporating religious dogma into secular institutions - it's the lazy religious man's easy way out. No need to set an example when certain behavior is mandated... all you need to figure out is your "begging for foregiveness" speech.

A faith so weak that it cannot be defended and explained isn't much of a faith and deserves competition. And in a pluralistic society like ours, parents should be prepared for this very thing, cause it's going to happen.

Cheers,
Daiwa

Daiwa

on Dec 03, 2004

Thanks, Vecctor, for a very clear-headed explanation. Insightful to you.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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